Do you ever reach a point where you are honest with each other?

I send a heartfelt thank you to all my friends who posted here and the ones that took the time to read it.  You are an amazing group of individuals!  And I write that with total honesty!!  You provided responses that were honest and helped me deal with something that bothered me.  Honesty between him & me will never happen..and I feel ok about that. I wanted honesty but that left the marriage a long time ago. I did not get any honesty then and will not now.  Did I try, I felt I did, did he try, I feel not.   I was not trying now to save the marriage, for that is over.  Was this a step in healing, for me, or exceptance, I do not know. I do know, I have excepted this and the fact that the divorce will come.  I have excepted the fact that he has found someone else, and at the same time, except, that I am not like her.  They are more suited for each other because they have founded their relationship on deceit, not honesty.  This blog and your responses helped me realize that.

I think a lot depends on who your ex or STBX is as a personal.  Can he take personal responsibility for what he did wrong?  Can you?  If the answer is yes to both, then there is some chance that you would be able to talk.  Mr. X told me, the kids, our friends, and all his online buddies what a horrible person I am.  He complained to all and sundry about how everything is my fault, which is why he'd been cheating for 10 years with at least 7 or 8 different women.  He said to me that 'there was blame enough to go around,' but would say not ONE THING that was his fault--it was all mine.  I bore that burden for months.  I came to terms with all the things that are my fault and also came to terms with the fact that he will never admit or face one thing that is his fault.  Last I heard, he was telling people that it was 97% his fault and 3% my fault, but still would tell everyone all the things I did wrong, but not admit to anything, even the cheating, that is his fault. 

It's a character flaw.  He's broken.  Somewhere along the line, he crossed boundaries and could not live with himself, if he had to face what he'd done wrong.  I know that I will never get a sincere apology from him for all the hell he's put me through, both now and in the past.  I know that he is a negative force, as far as I'm concerned.  I can't control how he acts.  I can only control my reactions to him.  Right now, I'm learning to move on and heal.  I'm beginning to understand that my life can be and move in much more positive directions without him, than it has for years.

My ex is such a narcissistic jerk, his version of reality fails miserably when I try to make it jibe with the real world.  He is incapable of being honest on any level, and will only say what he thinks I want to hear if he wants something from me.  If he would capable of honesty I probably wouldn't have divorced him.

Peace and Blessings!

Question.  Would you believe anything he has to say???

My stbx said to me the other day "believe it or not I love you".  This was only after I said I loved him.  I looked at him and said to myselft, sure!  Then he brought me and my son dinner the following week.  I think it was because he needed his house papers signed.  The dinner depressed me because I don't want him to do anything outside of a court order for me because I don't feel that it is in honesty and truth.  If there were any honesty in the beginning we wouldn't be dragging each other through the court system.

As for you if this is what you desire, I hope that this happens for you but if it doesn't don't be hurt!

My ex and I had a 3 hour - no holds barred on his side - straight talk before we got a divorce. Most painful 3 hours of my life. I was the asshole - he was perfect. So much for being honest. Everything was my fault and I was the worst wife/provider/supporter/mother for the last 21 years in his eyes. So be careful of what you wish for. I am sorry that conversation ever happened. I never got to even defend myself. He just bitch slapped me the whole time and that was it. Too painful and too one-sided.

When I left my ex, we sat down at a restaurant to discuss what had gone down, sorta.  He got upset with me because I wouldn't let him buy my dinner.  Anyway, we didn't really talk about much because he found it difficult to truly discuss anything of any consequence.  I told him we WOULD at some point in time discuss what had gone on between us.  He just rolled his eyes.  My ex still won't talk to me, so I've pretty much given up any hope of ever having a conversation with him.  Ah, well, he lost the best damned thing that could ever happen to him.

The stbx has never told the truth in his life. He can't change.

I learned a long time ago that the truth was absolutely NOT what stbx wanted to hear.

It nearly drove me nuts 'til I figure that little kernel of wisdom out.  

The "honesty" turned out to be that stbx honestly only cared about stbx.

The realization of that truth set me free.

I have wanted the same kind of conversation w/ my ex. When he started to date my former good friend (the one I shared all the details to) our situation became too difficult for me. I tried to be mature and deal w/ seeing "them" sit w/ my kids like a nice new little family, but it was hard!! My kids were happy to see their dad and sat w/ him when I brought them. I choose to sit alone. When he continued to call "her" in place of me (against custody rules) to watch our kids when he was too busy during his scheduled time....that was the last straw!  I went to mediation w/ him because our children deserved to have a happier mother and the current situation was too difficult for me and uncomfortable for our children. I said either we talk at a neutral zone every week and develop a mutally respectful coparenting relationship or I will have to move with the children. In was in his best interests to comply so he did (not out of mutual respect). We met ionce a week over an entire summer a book store. Our talks were mostly okay and I feel I've recieved some closure. Was their an apology...no, but much needed talking time. As soon as it was apparent I was not going to move...he's back to his old self (minus the my former friend as his girlfriend).
A selfish human being is just that selfish! I have learned that you can't make anyone do anything they do not want to do. We are talking when only necessary now, but I do feel a bit more settled with it all. I would not pick him for a friend now so even though we have a history...why expect him to act friendly? It is not in his nature now anyway. If he were friendly w/o taking full responsibility for his past behavior, I would be wondering what he wants from me that requires "buttering" me up. Accept he is dead to you even though he is walking around--wierd concept, I know...but a real!
Good luck~
Shelley

I do not believe that my ex and I can have that kind of relationship. While, I miss the man he was once, I have no desire to have the man he has become as part of my life. Until I heard a heartfelt apology for the things he said to me, and could explain why he had to be so incredibly hurtful, I have nothing to say to him beyond being cordial.

Not sure...I am currently dating a wonderful man and he has this incredible relationship with his ex wife. Very loving.  They had coffee, the ex wife, new boyfriend and him.  He said it took a few months to get to that point but now they have a very nice relationship. Wow. I think I am going to puke.... I should mention he is Dutch..soooo maybe it is his culture???

I think it is possible. Not in my case but I have seen it with many couples. Personally, I am jealous.  I do not wish my ex bad or harm...maybe a bad case of Moctezuma's revenge every once in a while but nothing more..smile, smile....

I think it all depends on the kind of relationship you had before the divorce. Give yourself time.

As some of the other have said, if the person you are dealing with has the same motivation to speak truthfully and without malice, then I think you can find a place where you can talk authentically with one another and perhaps even, some day, with warmth and friendliness.

It takes strong and clear thinking and clear communication to acheive this, as well as both parties being determined to maintain this kind of relationship.  It does not need to be burdensome or intrusive at all.  Setting boundaries takes some time because of the shared past and your children in common, but I believe 100% that it is possible.

And kudos to you for wanting it!  Whether it happens or not, I personally think that is being in a healthy place for many people (not everyone, of course - I would never suggest that an abused spouse try to maintain contact with their or their children's abuser, for instance).

It takes a lot of courage, in my opinion, to be honest with ourselves, and then to be honest with our former partners and be able to communicate that honesty in a non-confrontational way.

I believe it can happen, if given enough time. Getting through your own personal junk usually has to happen first, but I think it can happen if that's what both people want.

Too little value is put on honesty and integrity these days and we are all reaping the consequences. Unfortunately for some, the down-side is hugh and long lasting. If your ex was honest or even capable of it, you would likely not be getting/have gotten divorced. All couples fight and argue, the couples who are honest with each other and live for the other's best interest, make it. We are a community of people who were not able to see or decided to ignore the warning signs. Move on and let your ex's next relationship worry about his honesty. Life is too precious to waste on those who lie to the people who love them. Good luck to all who are seeking the Truth!

I crave this as well.  The problem is that he has lied so much that I wouldnt trust anything he says.

I think that it's possible, but it depends on the people involved. I would like to be able to talk to my ex-wife about the failure of our marriage, but it's never going to happen given the fact that she's a pathological liar. In my case, there's too much water over the dam, too much hurt, and too much anger. Those emotions will fade in time, but she will never stop being who she is and as such there will never be any truly honest communication.
When I realized this, I came to truly understand that any closure I need is going to have to come from within me. I think that's pretty universal. My girlfriend's ex told her everything she thought she needed to hear. Apologized for all the hurt, lies, and wrongdoing. It changed nothing for her.
I personally will never be on good terms with my ex, but it's because I choose not to have her in my life as anything more than as my child's mother.

I think it's possible, but as Jay322 says, it takes time.  If there's one thing I've learned about the emotional repercussions of divorce it's that it takes time to be able to face the hurt and damage, and everyone has their own pace at which they need to do this. 

I left my husband after 28 years and we have two kids the same age as yours.  I bent over backwards to make it as easy as possible on everyone.  I stayed for a full year after we decided to split just so my youngest son could finish high school in his childhood home.  I continued to live the marriage, even in the bedroom.  Even so, my ex was so hurt when I finally did leave that he couldn't help himself but take a jab at me now and then either in terms of property division or responsibilities around selling our house.  He really just wanted to hurt me, to make me angry enough to fight with him.  I refused to take the bait.

Just make it a point to never bad-mouth your spouse in front of your kids.  He may be doing this to you and it may be working with the kids, but you won't regret taking the higher ground.

I have tried numerous times, he wont even hear of it.  Maybe due to the fact that he knows what he did is disgusting and by marrying her, did not change that fact

In my experience, yes it does happen. My first wife and I can talk honestly about what happened and say anything to each other without hurt, anger or ulterior motives.............but it took us 13 years (11 of which we had no contact what-so-ever) to get to that point.

Hopefully, it will be easier for you.