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Update - Does Life Ever Become Normal Again?

Hi all, man it is hot outside. Been in the 90's every day for at least 3 weeks. Hell of a storm yesterday afternoon blew a bunch of leaves and stuff around, dumping 2 inches of water all at once too. Anyway, too hot to go out to the parking deck for a cigarette break, so I thought I'd "blog out" for a moment or two and let you know what's going on.

In reconciliation for about 8 months now, long time. We are in marriage counseling with our minister. The MC has helped greatly. We both would have given up months ago without his advice and encouragement. We do, however, still struggle with communication in between sessions. So progress is slow. So slow it seems that at times in MC we just cover the same ground over and over...this is frustrating.

When we are together, emotionally, we both feel great about our future. I'm able to avoid the past when she shows me some compassion, passion, and I feel like the object of her love and desire. I'm very careful also to make certain that I am showing her my devotion, love, attention and appreciation also, so it's at times a two-way street.

Mostly though, it's pretty lonely here. We've talked about renewing our vows, something she says she really wants to do. This is something I would like to do, because it would give me a sense of "starting over" that I think is needed in my life. So, great, we agree we want to do this. Why then hasn't anything happened? I've brought up dates for the event (we want a ceremony for us, our parents and the girls followed by a long weekend vacation just the two of us) and it seems like something always gets in the way. I have a camping trip planned in late August but told her it is just that, a camping trip, and if we'd rather do our "honeymoon" then I would cancel. Nothing. We talked about getting each other new rings, I told her I'd like a new one from her, yet she's not talked to me about size or type or anything. It's like she's avoiding really getting down to business here despite her very convincing words of commitment and love. She says she wants all this, but does little to move along with me while I'm excited and looking forward to the future.

The ceremony, and sex. Two big issues right now that just do nothing but result in a staring contest. She says she wants the ceremony, just have trouble "finding time" for it. Couple that with our once a week, maybe, sex life that's pretty disatisfying and you get the picture in your head of a pretty lame routine. Shouldn't be that way if she's trying to win back her husband.

So my gut won't leave me alone. Part of me says hey she's here, this is all that she needs, she won't cheat again, relax, she loves me the best she can. She's says sex just isn't as important to her as it is to me. OK, may be that is true, but my happiness and satisfaction should be more important to her shouldn't it? I mean she's expecting me to be OK with the fact that she's never been a wildcat lusty woman in bed, but then she goes off and has a sexual affair with someone 10 years older than she is? I'm supposed to think this is just some weird out of body experience for her and accept that she's got a very low sex drive (for me?). It's impossible for me not to think about our lame sexual experiences (TMI Alert, it's all me, doing all the work on her, and she's funny about me touching her, like she's uncomfortable with me or herself...she stands naked in the mirror to put on her makeup every morning while I shave and shower, but at night won't take her t-shirt off to make love...things she used to do to and for me, not a chance now although I've never asked why) and how this must compare to the excitement and passion of her encounters with that other guy. She made monumental effort to be with him, but wouldn't give me handjob in the car if I paid her $1000. Just frustrated you all, sorry to be so graphic...not my style is it?

So my gut tells me there is still something very wrong with her...like she's missing her boyfriend or second guessing her begging me to take her back. I've got some anxiety too that I've made a mistake...and that anxiety has its origins in her behavior since we decided to reconcile. She wants the old marriage back, the comfortable feeling, the friends, the trust...and I want a new marriage with trust and passion and none of the shame and pain of the old one.

Our last two MC sessions have been tough on her...all about her quest for perfection. When she can't achieve it in reality, she fakes it. All about her parents and her past. She's got shame and guilt issues still that she just can't seem to shake regardless of how supportive, positive and loving I am being. I guess my disappointment in all this really is too hard for me to mask and perhaps she just feels like making me happy is a mountain too tall for her to climb.

I don't know. Today I wish I'd just kept on going back in October and never looked back. Tomorrow I'll probably be glad I didn't, who knows. I guess I'm just depressed...she seems so normal and at peace and routine...and inside I am just screaming at the top of my lungs. Maybe I just don't love her anymore and I've lost sight of that because all I've been doing the past 14 months is try to keep my marriage together.... Sad.

2CD

by 2CoolDaughters 246 Posts

Posted on 6/29/2009 1:53 PM

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Comments for "Update - Does Life Ever Become Normal Again?" (13) (You must be logged in to answer)

Lisa Cannon
Divorce Coach
405 Posts

HI 2CD -

It sounds like you both are making progress. Remember, it took a long time for things to get like this and they aren't going to get better overnight. Recovery is always three steps forward and two steps back. I give you credit for making communication a priority. That is essential. As is remaining vulnerable, which your post update seems to indicate you are doing as well. Kudos!

Have you brought up sexual issues during your couples counseling sessions? Have you found out whether your wife needs individual counseling to overcome her sexual issues? (something to ask your counselor) Have you tried non-sexual touch, like snuggling, hugging, hand holding or massage. She might be open to it if you tell her that you don't expect to have intercourse, just touch one another. Once she becomes more comfortable with being touched, maybe in time sexuality will develop.

Are there medical issues for her, like perimenopause, midlife crisis, pain during intercourse, or anything else that might hinder her enjoyment? Be aware that one of the symptoms of depression is a loss of sex drive. There may be a need for her to see her Gynocologist and talk about some of this. I would encourage that avenue. Usually a woman's Gyn is someone she can confide in if she is having a sexual problem. Maybe he/she can offer some advice?

If she has intimacy issues they can be expressed as a lack of interest in sex. Remember, sex is an external indication of what's happening in the relationship.  You both are healing your relationship and your sex lives will heal in the process.

Keep talking, being vulnerable, working at being empathetic and compassionate as it seems you have been thus far.  I know it's alot of work, but it's worth it.

Remember, you get what you give. So keep on giving the good stuff and you will eventually get it back coupled with a good deal of respect and love.

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by Lisa Cannon
Posted on 7/9/2009 8:57 PM

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I guess what I'm experiencing is just testament to how hard reconciliation really is. The other night we had a LONG talk about "us". She said she thought things were getting better, after hearing that I was disappointed in the way things were going just pushed her down more, making her feel as if she'll never measure up. I admitted that may be true, but at the same time I feel truly the unworthy one, the one not good enough, the one that's not first any more. She said she didn't want me to feel that way because it's not true. I asked about our sex life and after a 30 min pause where she just stared, she said she likes it when I just put my arm around her and if that leads to something more thats fine too. That's nice to hear, really it is. But we agreed that doesn't help either of us understand what her hang-up is about physical connection for her. It was late and we were tired and we just let it go at that. Since then, no talk about us or anything about our relationhsip. So again I lay it out on the line for her, open my heart, share my fears and feelings, and she just acknowledges this but offers no support or reinforcement. I have a choice to make, either file, soon, or gut it out some more. If I ignore my feelings, the fact that my emotional and physical needs are not being me, that won't lead either of us to happiness. I asked her about her needs, what can I do to make her feel more loved and special. She couldn't answer. She said she doesn't know what her expectations are. I'm torn between listening to my gut that says she's so damaged that she can't ever be happy with me and listening to her tell me she's fine, working it out, and loves me very much. I want to believe what she says, but her actions tell a different story. There's no passion for me, no yearning for me like I have for her. Yes I show her my feelings, she says I do and that she appreciates it.

2CD

by 2CoolDaughters 246 Posts
Posted on 7/2/2009 2:42 PM

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You said that sometimes in between marriage counseling sessions you have times that you just struggle with communication, so I am thinking that maybe you could sit down and make up a list of some of the other things that you need to address, that way, perhaps you won't be going over the same old things. To me, it sounds like her words are telling you one thing but her actions are showing another. Are you sure that she is no longer seeing the other man? Does she work a full time job that is making her too tired? I was just wondering also, could she be going through menopause or perimenopause, or even hormonal issues because that could also interfere with not wanting very much sex. Have you ever just sat down with her and told her that you are frustrated or are you afraid that will chase her away? Honestly, she has to work on it too for things to get back to a new marriage. Maybe one night you could arrange a night out and take her out for a special evening of fun..... I wish you all the best.

by deborah-trevino 1099 Posts
Posted on 7/1/2009 7:26 AM

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Lisa Cannon
Divorce Coach
405 Posts

[continued...]
BTW - I know it says financial counselor. It's glitch. They're working on it.

You also need to make deposits (both of you) into your relationship. People tend to think of a relationship as a static thing. In fact, it is a living entity that needs deposits to keep it alive. If you both don't make those deposits, it will die. When you both are making daily deposits the balance in the account is nice and high. When rough times come along there are enough deposits to cover the losses. When the balances are low, the account gets overdrawn and the relationship collapses.

Deposits are daily efforts to show your love for one another. They can be small, like a hug and a smile, or they can be huge, like making love. Acknowledging deposits is just as important, saying, " thank you for...".   There is nothing worse than ignoring the efforts of someone who is trying hard to be kind and compassionate. That applies to both of you. When making and acknowledging deposits becomes a part of your daily routine you will have begun the steps necessary to mend your broken relationship.

This will take time and effort on both your parts. If you both are truly committed to the process your relationship will emerge from this difficult time stronger and more fulfilling than ever before. You will build intimacy that you both probably never had. Real intimacy isn't about sex...   it's about being vulnerable. Keep that in mind when you talk with your wife. Not only does she need to be vulnerable, but you need to be as well. That is particularly hard since you have been hurt and betrayed, but that... compassion... is the answer to your pain.

Good luck!! I wish you all the best. Again, you can find much more at   http://holistic-counselor.blogspot.com/.

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by Lisa Cannon
Posted on 7/1/2009 3:43 AM

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Lisa Cannon
Divorce Coach
405 Posts

Hi 2CD - I am a relationship counselor. I read through your blogs and got a sense of what has happened. I am glad that you are both in counseling. I have a couple of thoughts.

You have been in counseling for about eight months. I would suggest that it will take quite a while for you to get past your anger at being betrayed. During that time you may find that you are hypervigilant regarding your wife's behavior and activities. It will take some time for you to rebuilt your shattered trust. I would suggest that you take this time to work on yourself. Begin the process of practicing self care. For more information on what that means you can read through some of my blogs at http://holistic-counselor.blogspot.com/ .

You mention your lack of satisfaction in your sex life. It is not uncommon for couples to get into a boring routine allowing sex to become another daily chore. If your wife has issues surrounding sex she should discuss them with the counselor alone. If your MC isn't qualified to help her in this area, find someone who is capable. Sex is fully one third of a relationship. If partners are unable to experience intimacy in their daily interactions, sex is even more difficult and stilted.

Think carefully about something... people in happy fulfilling relationships don't usually have affairs. (Of course there are exceptions for those who are mentally disturbed, but it doesn't sound like this applies here.) Generally by the time someone strays, the marriage was already dead or dying.

It is imperative that you both reconnect and begin to make your relationship a priority. It's too easy to get caught up in kids, family, friends and activities. You need couple time every week - a date - alone. You need time where you talk about your day and reconnect on a daily basis - alone. You each need to make ordinary communication - like two friends - a priority.

[continued...]

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by Lisa Cannon
Posted on 7/1/2009 3:30 AM

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Once, during her affair (before I knew about it) we were arguing about sex, lack of it, lack of interest in it on her part, and I asked her if she'd ever been abused. The question came out of frustration about what the hang-up for her is. She said that when she was 8 two neighborhood boys, like age 10 or 11, were playing at her house and one of them jumped on her and held her down, just laying on top of her. No physical violation took place but it scared her pretty good. She ran to her mom and told her. Her mom's reaction was "oh nothing happened, don't talk about your neighbors like that, you know how sweet mrs. soandso is and I'm not going to tell her a thing you just get over it nothing happened. That sort of thing.

4 months later I discovered her affair, so I figured the story about the "abuse" was just some lie she told me to make herself sympathetic at the time because she was cheating on me and that would explain why she didn't want sex from me.

Even after I learned of her affair, and she told her parents about the relationship, I asked her if she'd mentioned the abuse and she said no. She's never brought it up in counseling either, so I just figured if it did happen it was one of the lies she used as cover for her affair.

I guess it wouldnt suprise me to learn that she'd been gang raped or something in college given the way she acts now. But I would hope that something like that in her past would have surfaced in all the counseling we've been through together over the last 15 years. I know there is no way she'd tell me now though, absolutely no way.

And this kind of uncertainty, mystery, is what keeps me anxious about who she really is and what she is really capable of committing to.

Last night I asked her about the renewal of vows, if she'd thought more about it, she said yes, and mentioned a date and what the kids were doing that weekend. I said I thought that was good. Then she changed the subject.

2CD

by 2CoolDaughters 246 Posts
Posted on 6/30/2009 8:09 AM

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My first thought was: She acts like she's been sexually abused by someone in her family. Is this a possibility?

by Iam 466 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 5:05 PM

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ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!!!!! Amen to that. My stbxh would talk through both sides of his mouth but his actions said something completely different. Pay close attention to this one 2CD.

Also, I have a saying that a friend sent me. I find it quite insightful:

"Never allow someone to be your Priority while allowing yourself to be their Option."

Think about it.

by flutterby 820 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 4:05 PM

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Yeah, it just don't make sense. Like if I begged a guy to come back to me and he did and then he offered to re-new vows, get rings, offer honeymoon getaway, I'd be dancing all over the place with absolute thrill and happiness. Not to mention showing him how much I've learned to love and appreciate it.

I've never cheated and as far as I know never been cheated on so maybe I don't have quite the depth of knowledge on this.

But I'd say, keep up the counseling, and keep on observing (you find out a lot more observing people than asking them questions, ya know.) Actions really do speak louder than words.

by lifeinpurgatory 1777 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 3:56 PM

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Purgatory...love the handle.

She says she's not on the fence. She says she chose me, for me, not for the kids or money or anything else. She says that alot. The issue is her actions really don't reinforce the words.

Sure I've asked her why she's cool to me sexually and her response has always been "I'm just not as comfortable as you are with all that" or "I don't know, sex just isn't that important to me." I used to buy that, thinking ok, she's just got less sex drive than me. But after learning of her affair all that changed. It's a lousy excuse now to say "I just don't love sex like you do." Might be true for her, hell sex with the other guy could have been horrible but I doubt it. His emails to her told a different story. So anyway...

She gets frustrated and mad when I push her to talk to me about her feelings on intimacy, or my feelings on it. It's like she gets embarrased and then just shuts down.

I'm starting to view her as mother to her children and attractive tease/flirt only. I should view her differently, but this is really what she's reduced herself to, to me.

2CD

by 2CoolDaughters 246 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 3:38 PM

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Good point, normal isn't what I want as far as the marriage is concerned. When I write that she wants the "old marriage" I mean that she wants the peace and comfort of a loving marriage like we used to have. I get it, but it's impossible unless she's different in her approach to the marriage and to me.

Seems as if we are at two different places emotionally. I can get through the pain of the infidelity, but only with her continued work. She acts as if it's satisfactory simply for her NOT to be in an affair any more. Really, she acts very similar to how she acted before and during the affair, it's hard for me to believe that there's anything new here. And that doesn't make me feel special, or like I have something to be proud that I saved.

2CD

by 2CoolDaughters 246 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 3:31 PM

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Hi 2CD - I don't know where you're at, but here in S.C., you wanna talk about hot? Shew!! High 90's and throw in a thundershower for high humidity, I'm about to melt. To make it worse my A/C froze or something so it's 90 inside...hot.

Lessee how to say this.....I think your wife see's you as her foundation (kids, in-laws, family, common friends, etc.) and that would be hard to leave. But, there's that lack of responsibility that you have with an extra-marital affair, it's new, exciting, etc.

So it kinda (and I could, and hopefully, be wrong) but it kinda sounds like she's on the fence. Fun or Family? Routine or Excitement? New or Old? ya know?

Or maybe she holds a burden of guilt. I don't know how much remorse she showed you. Did she beg you not to leave out of wanting you back or out of guilt??

Love making should be a very important thing in a relationship/marriage (in my opinion). To show each other how you feel without saying a word. To show passion, desire. Have you even asked her why she seems so frigid around you when it comes to that??

And for you.....do you think you can truly go back to her and not hold resentment. Can you go back and not (in your mind) compare your marriage and her affair (like for example, she did this with him but not with me)?

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. You seem to be giving your marriage a fair shot. You are doing all the right things. Now you got to make sure your wife is doing her part (without forcing her, just observing her). If she's not, please don't set yourself up for a worse hurt.

Take care

by lifeinpurgatory 1777 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 3:28 PM

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Define normal. I don't think anything in life is "normal." You said something that really caught my attention. She wants to go back to the way things used to be and you want a "new" marriage. When things were the way they used to be she cheated on you. That is not a good sign. Just like my marriage we both brought things to the table that we needed to work on. I think moving on and developing a new relationship is the best way. I will be praying for you!

by flutterby 820 Posts
Posted on 6/29/2009 2:48 PM

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